I throw myself on the mercy of the court.
I had an interaction on the Mastodon instance Newsie.social. I joined it early when it said it was a place for people interested in journalism to congregate. It was interesting and fun. One day, I had a series of interactions (my end repeated below) with a couple of trans people. I had recently communicated with some people I like and respect about the topic and I conveyed thinking based on that interaction. Out of the blue, I receive this:
"While this post does not quite rise to violate our threatening or harassing anyone on the basis of race, ethnicity, national origin, caste, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity, religious affiliation, age, disability, or serious disease, you should take note that we have received numerous complaints regarding it."
And then I was banned.
I think this is something to worry about. The things I wrote were very carefully written to avoid being offensive in any way. After pushing back on someone who called me names, the interaction was not even heated. We disagreed. We discussed. And, in the end, I was convinced that the idea I was defending was wrong.
I think a challenge of Mastodon is to find a way to detect petty tyrants. This site, https://newsie.social, purported to be a place for open dialog, etc. I invested time and good will and was screwed in the end by petty people and an unfair moderator.
I hope some people will discuss this. I do not think that I was anywhere near "threatening or harassing" in any possible way but, I will read the comments and learn.
Also, I will stay away from small instances like Newsie.social now.
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I do not have access to the other parts of the conversation, only what I wrote. Make of it what you will.
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Personally, I go for Starship Troopers, coed everything and who the hell cares.
But, in every conversation I have with people about this issue, the one thing that comes up again and again is women worrying about being unsafe because people with penises are usually the ones doing the raping.
It's unfair to those of us who don't rape but, I think it is a correct compromise to make it easier to accept gender self-determination.
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First, stop being so contentious. I spoke politely, you can, too.
Second, this is not transphobic garbage any more than it is anti-male to say that men should not walk into a women's locker room. We all have our behavior regulated for others' comfort.
Further, there is nothing anti about the observation that people with penises do the raping. Ask anyone who doesn't have one.
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Until transformation became a public issue, we did not have a lot of women in changing rooms complaining about not being women. That's simply not a thing.
I understand that this is a rough deal for penis holders who present as female. Right now, they are passing laws to make it so that birth is the discriminant.
This compromise improves on that. I make no claim that it's ideal. That's why I use the word compromise. Better than being banned.
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I’m would be surprised if trans people rape but I know many women whose only objection to the trans movement is penises in places where they are vulnerable. I’d like them to stop being in opposition.
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I’m an old, extreme lefty. My friends are very sympathetic to trans issues. One is a woman who is very far on the left with me. She and I have protested for every issue you hold dear.
She is 200% supportive of trans rights but she, like lot of women, has had bad experiences with people with penises. She would fight for every right you could want if she was convinced that her young women would have spaces that were safe from penis people.
You want support?
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I will add this. I have argued your view. I know the stats as well as you.
She is intelligent and knowledgeable. She thinks it’s a threat and cites situations, perhaps imaginary but maybe not, where there have been problems.
As I said before, I agree with you. I just think compromise is necessary if progress is going to happen. I think intransigence will result in them more of the same.
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Last response from me: I know people who worry. About this who are not bigoted, not opposed to trans rights and are very sympathetic people. The insistence on characterizing them as such is counterproductive. It is creating enemies of people who want to be your friend.
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1) I do not want any restrictions whatsoever. I think gender should be unregulated. I want all bathrooms to be all-gender.
2) Presently, we do not require proof of genitals in bathrooms and I support that emphatically.
3) We do have a norm of not assigning people with penises to participate in non-penis spaces. I would prefer to eliminate this norm but, I think that many sincere people feel it is necessary and think compromise would help.
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If you ask cis women, pretty sure they'll say they expect their locker rooms to be free of penises.
I'd far rather share space with trans people in general. Less likely to be Trumpsters.
I don't want anyone to prove. I'd not support that ever. But, I'm ok with non-penis people having the option to eject penises in situations where they are vulnerable or naked.
Look, we aren't going to agree on this. I promise, I'd never support anything more than this.
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Also, in a comment you might not have been able to see, I said, and believe, that if I were king, I would make all bathrooms all-gender spaces with lots of cubicles. I'd make the norm include dealing with coed urinals.
Me? I have one and could not care less.
I am in favor of all trans rights. I have enough conversations with people who are otherwise supporters to believe that trans rights are going nowhere without the ability to have non-penis spaces.
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(Thanks for the pleasant tone.)
Changing rooms don’t seem a problem. I’ve never seen one without individual doors.
I don’t want enforcement. I want to allow non-penis people to be allowed to complain if they feel threatened (understanding that it’s generally unwarranted). I would add that I would like to have a ton of unisex bathrooms.
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Also, a thing that comes up is prisons and locker rooms. I’m told that trans women with penises have been housed with people that don’t have them.
I don’t know what to do about locker rooms but understand that many women have fear.
I repeat. I would prefer to just say, Deal with it haters. It’s just that I know people who are not haters who are not good with having penises around.
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I don't disagree with most of what you say but here's the problem: Trans people are not the ones with power. Shouldn't matter but they are looking for concessions that many do not want to grant.
I'm not a political scientist so I don't really know but I guess that black people supported laws against lynching and then letting them into schools even though it was still legal to discriminate in the workplace.
I guess I'm thinking about incremental gains.
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Overnight, I have concluded that I agree with you. My view is not tenable. There is no sane way to deal with the penis in non-penis space problem felt by some non-penis people.
I do not know what is going to happen and cannot think of an ideal situation that is conceivable considering the emotional intensity of otherwise trans friendly people.
I can only say that I will always vote against any restrictions and for all rights for trans. I hope for the best
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